Valvetronics PLUS Series

[dutchdave]

Hi there,

Just saw this new series on the Vox site...... is it just me or did any of you guys have a deja vue feeling?

It would seem as though VOX does listen to it's customers coz the PLUS's really seem to be somewhat of a ressurection of the old "Blues" AD60's and AD120's.

I obviously can't comment on the build quality, but technically, "on paper" they seem similar, although the foot pedal is nothing compared to the VC4 and VC12.

Maybe Voxman will get one to test run !!! ????

Just one little niggle..... In a world where nearly all amps are black (at least the affordable ones) i liked the blues because they stood out. I can't believe that other colours would be so much more expensive as to make it cost prohibitive.

Dave.

[Voxman]

Hi Dave - aside from 33 vs 16 amp models, & whilst Vox is moving in the right direction, the 'Blues' are still a way superior amp from the perspective of build quality & (with the VC12) sheer gigability. IMHO Vox is merely playing catch-up in adding features that were in the Blues in 2001!!

As per Vox forum:

http://www.voxamps.com/forum/topic.php? ... post-16226

The V+ don't have an independent delay & modulation section, and the VFS5 offers very limited floor control with almost no visibility of where you are - there's no patch numbers shown, no tuner visibility, no volume and/or expression pedal, & no real 'stomp box' facility. The way the 'effect bypass' works is a real nuisance because it acts globally - not just on the patch you've selected. 8 patches is still on the low side, and 12-16 should really have been possible.

I haven't yet heard whether all the V+ have got an FX loop, or whether it's still just the 2x12" version - an FX loop on all models (or at least on V+40 upwards) would be well received by a lot of folk! I'm also unclear re extension speaker capabilities. Currently, only the VT50 & VT100 have stn speaker outs - but the internal speaker(s) are shut off. With the Blues, you get dedicated extn speaker & line-outs (with line out level control), an 8/16 Ohm impedence switch for extn cabs (VTX & VTH only), & the internal speakers stay on when an extn cab is added.

Further, the headphone out on the Blues is AFTER the tube - they're before it on the ADxxVT/VT chromes.

The reality is that although a complete redesign from the ground floor up is ideally what's needed for the Valvetronix if Vox is to have a true market-leading flagship (but remember, Vox had a 'difficult' experience with the Black Diamond prototype) it's just not commercially viable at this time, so the approach of steady enhancement and keeping the V'x aimed at the lower-cost range of the market is the safer way for Vox to go.

[Erotic Elbows]

Hmm, not looking so positive.

If the speaker and SS components were good enough in the VT+s they could be winners though.

[Voxman]

Hmm, not looking so positive.

If the speaker and SS components were good enough in the VT+s they could be winners though.

It's certainly positive that the V'X+ is again improving the package for new V'x users - 33 amp models & a pedal section are big improvements. All I'm saying is that adding a pedal section doesn't turn an upgraded 'chrome series' amp into a Blue series.

You have to appreciate that the Blues were specifically designed from outset as a gigging amp. The original chrome was designed from outset as a practice amp. So Vox has its work cut out in trying to transition the current range of Valvetronix - it's a slow job, hence the enhancements in stages.

Rich

[rsm]

Dunno. I had a ToneLab LE for a few years and sold it a few months ago, I considered the ST but I replaced it with an original Tonelab Desktop. IIRC, it has the same circuit as my AD120VTH which I dig it certainly sounds great, and since I'm only using the amp/cab models it is much easier to dial in and tweak because there are knobs for all the amp controls. Digitech has raised the bar with the RP500/RP1000 and the GSP1101 IMO, and now Line 6 is going to release the POD HD series probably before Christmas.

I think Vox needs to have a high-end modeler in the $500 street price range that can offset R&D costs and these costs can be amortized by phasing them in to the lower priced models over time. Hey, but what do I know about selling this stuff (not much), but I do know many people that think the Vox ToneLab / Valvetronix are the best of the low cost modelers including the inventor of the Axe-Fx. Vox just did not continue to innovate, add features (looper anyone?) and expand the design (signal routing options like 4CM ala RP1000), offer different price points, form factors, etc. (look at the Digitech RP series).

So if Vox is content letting others dominate the market while they stay in the low end (and if Digitech or Line 6 use the feature trickle down approach there goes the low end too), I can't stop them. Too bad, so sad. IMO of course; YMMV

[keenwatcher]

33 amp models is really handing out some massive versatility, but I just don't have the heart to go straight up direct, ever. "Live" sound, speakers, still does it for me every time.

[Voxman]

IMHO Vox has to raise the bar on both the budget end of the market and bring out a 'Professional' version of the Valvetronix that is made with quality components, solves current 'bugs', has USB upgradeable firmware, has proper full gigging/stomp box capability (ala Blue series) and is more stripped down. You don't need 33-44 amp models. 12-15 top quality accurate models is all you need. The powerstage needs to have proper power valves (that are easy to get to). It needs quality basic effects that give you full parameter control, a global wah and compressor, and all patches need to be saveable as user pre-sets.

The forthcoming VTX150 Pro looks to be a step up from the VT+ but my concern is whether its more about yet another repackaging exercise rather than a true beef up in build quality. Aside from the new EL84 power tube replacing the 12AX7 tube in the valve-reactor circuit, and a good quality Neodymium speaker, the VTX150 (aside from some cosmetic changes) looks to be the same as the current VT+ except with 44 amp models and VC12 compatibility (albeit not with full stomp box capability as per VC12/Blue series amps).

Key aspects are whether the VT+ bugs have been sorted (many users complain of hiss levels and trailing 'snare-drum' noise), and whether the build quality and components have been upgraded. I may be wrong, but I suspect the components and build are fundamentally the same & maybe still with those awful cheap jack sockets. There's no real info out on the VTX yet and whilst I really hope its going to be a goodie, it still lacks much of the above. Until Vox adds USB firmware upgradeability with decent software, and commits to proper upgrades its going to fall further behind the competition.

The Fender Mustang amps are in my view currently Vox' biggest competitive threat, and whilst they may be 'only' full DSP with no valves, they sound very, very good. They come with free software (Fender FUSE, & recording software), are USB upgradeable, III, IV & V come with foot-pedals as standard (2-button with III, 4-button with IV & V), have FX loops (Mustang III, IV & V), and Fender are very attentive to upgrades and customer service. Plus they look good, appear well designed and well built, and are very, very competitively priced. Warranty in the US is 5 years, and 2 years in the UK. Each of the 100 presets in the Mustang III can be fully customised and saved in the amp without needing an external pedal to do it - so why do you only get 8 user slots in the VT+??

You won't find a better exponent of the Vox Valvetronix amp concept than me - but (VTX150 aside as its an unknown at the moment) all Vox has done over the last few years is regurgitate the same amp with a few extra bells & whistles. In this market that's not good enough - they need to do a lot more and quickly before they lose customers and market position - they need a bona-fide new Valvetronix designed and built from the ground up. IMHO the best Valvetronix they ever made was the (Korean) AD120/60 series which first came out in 2001. That was 10 years ago & in my view it hasn't made anything comparable (let alone better) since.

Another big issue is Vox getting its customer support and communications right. There are too many instances on the Vox forum where Vox are not responding to issues sufficiently quickly or communicating openly & robustly with its customers - & this even impacts on its flagship Handwired AC30 where there's a current debacle with Vox not even being prepared to confirm whether the tube-compatibility 'fix' needed has been implemented on new amps leaving the factory. A very reasonable question from prospective buyers that Vox has not yet answered. Another example? The debacle last year re the Chinese made Celestion Blue speakers not using the same cone material as the UK made Celestion Blue.

It's also long overdue that Vox provides more than a 12 month warranty with their gear - another area where they're falling behind. I just bought a Laney Cub 12R - register on line, & you get the standard 12 month warranty extended to 5 years for free! Other companies are backing their products (eg Fender, as above) with better warranties & Vox needs to do the same.

Rich

[keenwatcher]

I have to agree with you there Rich about better warranties, I think there some be some better international standard/law set up where all manufacturer are held to the same ideology.

[DocD]

Voxman:

I couldn't have said it any better...thank you for saying outloud what a lot of us folks are thinking. One can only hope that Vox is really listening to their number one proponent (not "exponent" ).

I still love the sounds coming out of my 40+ (it sounded more "real" to my 50+ years of playing ears when compared to the Mustang, perhaps because of the tube?), but the easily fixable hiss/sizzle (via software update) and the things missing are REALLY irritating. It would be different if there was another, higher level of Valvetronix amp that I could move up to, like a continuation of the Blues, but we're stuck here if we want a lot models and effects, which I do/need. The Pro seems to be a step in the right direction, but I can already see problems/limitations.

The corporate decisions to not include certain basic things in an amp that clearly is not just a practice amp are bizzare IMHO, the most bizarre of which is to not have some way to update the software/firmware on something that is primarily software/firmware driven! There are NO programmers anywhere who can guarantee that their software is bug-free no matter how much they test it in any environment. What's more distressing/enlightening is the fact that the next series of Valvetronix, the Pro, STILL doesn't have anyway to upgrade the software/firmware, at least based on the pre-release version they've shown.

The most distressing thing, however, is not about the amp per se, but about Vox as a company. When you see a forum, which ought to have a healthy number of discussions about the products which are helpful, positive, informative, but what you actually see are problems and complaints across the product line, the bulk of which are ignored by the company, then red flags start going up all over the place about whether you want to buy this company's products and take the chance that you'll end up with a problem that will/can not be fixed. For example, does anyone really want to buy a JamVox right now (BTW, I'd love to have one and can easily afford it) with all the problems people have with it on the latest MacOS and Win7...not everyone has the time or ability to go through all the Audio/Video setting on their computer to try to fix the problems...and those fixed were figured out by users, NOT Vox!

Thanks again Voxman for all the help you give all of us and for giving voice to our frustrations about something we would love to just be able to love unconditionally.