How I "learn" my VT20+

[deano]

I’m not sure whether this is a tip or just my way of working that is obvious to everyone already, but I’ll throw it out there anyway in case it does help someone.

I found that my VT20+ was so feature-rich, that I wasn’t really “learning” it. I would pick an amp model and fiddle around with it, get a great tone, store the patch and then move on. Eventually of course I forgot which patch was what. I was enjoying myself but not actually playing much or learning how to use the amp.

So I picked four amp and decided to use them and them alone for a while. I picked the Dumble ODS, Fender Blackface Twin, Marshall JCM800 and the Vox AC30TB. I created a clean tone for each one and stored it in the Green bank (Green = clean!), in alphabetical order. So the Dumble is in patch 1, the Fender in patch 2 etc.

Then I created an overdriven version of each amp and stored it in the Red bank, again in alphabetical order. Patch 3 then is a Marshall JCM800, green for the clean setting and red for the overdriven setting.

All pretty straightforward and simple, but it has allowed me to get a grip on the amp. By limiting myself to these four amps, I can learn each one. I pick a song to play along to, and select a basic amp setting from the patches, then adjust the controls to taste. So if I’m jamming along to a Brad Paisley track, I’ll select Red 4 (AC30TB overdriven), and adjust to taste.

It might sound simple to the point of stupidity, but it has meant that I spend more time on just a few models, and learn the limits of each one much more thoroughly, learning how to get a good sound out of this limited set instead of sprawling all over the amp, not really mastering any of it. It’s the same old story of too much choice, which can be a bad thing unless brought under control. Adding a framework has restricted me but made the amp of more use to me.

Once I’m happy that I’ve mastered one amp, I can always replace it with another (swapping the Twin for the Bassman or AC30 for Matchless etc), and learn that. I may find that I can get a tone with another amp that I’ve struggled over with my starting four amps, but that won’t matter. It’s all learning. It may take months before I get to the point of swapping though.

[Voxman]

I think that's a brilliant way of getting to know the amp. It's one thing if you're an old codger like me who's played a lot of the 'real' amps and has a good grounding in how they sound, but without that frame of reference you'd be seriously struggling.

One classic amp you MUST add to make it 5 - the Fender Bassman; it has a rich complex tone and the most wonderful break up unmatched by any other amp. And then add some tube overdrive (tube screamer) - they were made for each other!

I've always tried to explain to people that the Valvetronix are not simple 'plug 'n play' amps. There are 33 amp models in the VT+ & if you think about how long it takes to really get to know one conventional amp, getting to grips with 33 is really challenging - each amp model has its own sweetspot just like the originals.

Too many people switch to a factory pre-set and base their critique of the amp just on those - & most of the time these are pretty 'average' (or even disappointing!) but are just meant to give a flavour of different tones/effects.

Using the amp models clean to begin with plus perhaps a little reverb &/or delay, experimenting with the gain, EQ and master volume 'valve saturation' really is the only way to get a good feel of each model.

Well done & keep learning & enjoying your amp!

Rich

[TimC]

I'm still fiddling with my VT30, like you did. I'll try your tip, thanks. It seems so obvious really, but I didn't think of it

[dbvt120]

I am using pretty much the same procedure in order to get familiar with varius amps. I own vt120+ and it works well for me.

I know that some people are very enthusiastic about valvetronix amps and its usage as giging amp but I think that when it comes to playing non mic-ed gigs learning curve with this amp is bit longer than with other amps. I can understand now why some people are unfairly trashing valvetronix amps in their reviews after only few hours of use. I'll explain my experiences so far:

I gig rarely now (once every two months) and the reason why I got vt120+ is because I wanted to have little bit simplier setup but so far I don't think that I know amp enought to take it to the gig. Did 5-6 rehearsals with it and currently don't feel confident that I am in control. Not that something is wrong with amp. Not at all. It is that amp reacts differently than others and it requires different approach.

For the start, I am using it in manual mode, no effects only little bit of reverb. Using my pedal board in front of the amp.

Now, I own quite a few guitars and I've noticed that for each guitar amp requires quite a lot of tweaking in order to get the right sound out of it. Nothing unusal some will say but no, this is little bit different.

For example, amongs others, I own three very similar specd telecasters (maple necks, ash bodies, vintage pickups). If I plug one of them into any tube amp and dial desired clean sound at giging volume through amps control and then swap it for any of other two I get pretty similar sound out (volume and character of the sound) of each of them.

Now when I do the same on vt120+ sound of each guitar is significantly different and I need to touch up EQ and Gain, Volume to achieve the same sound. This applies to all cleanish type low gaing amps (left hand side of the amp selector). On a low volume all three guitars sound the same through vt120+

Has anyone noticed similar thing?


Has anyone noticed similar.

[Voxman]

The Valvetronix modeling emulates very closely how your guitars would sound with the original of that model. Some amps give a tone that isn't particularly sensitive to nuances of different guitars. Others are very sensitive. This is why folk using Marshalls who switch to Fender or Vox have to get used to the different tone & playing dynamics. In your VT120+ you've got 33 amps to get your head round.

But an experienced word about live tone...don't be too sensitive about your tone. As a player you may notice differences between similar guitars (I have 4 single coil Fenders - 3 strats & a Tele - all sound different)....but in a mix with a band especially, the audience wouldn't notice any difference whatsoever. And with distortion especially, even a Strat & a Les Paul will sound the same to them!

I don't use more than 2 guitars live. You have 8 user patches you can save. Why not (for example) prep 4 patches for each of 2 guitars. A good clean, a chorus clean, a nice crunch, and a lead tone. These can be with the same or different amp models/pedal efects entirely to your taste. Set the patches at gigging volume with the band (NOT at home) otherwise they will just sound 'wrong' when you raise up the volume. Aside from any minor EQ tweaks when playing, you're then sorted.

At home, those great gig patches may sound pants because EQ has to be set differently for home use. So, at home, just use manual mode.

Or set 4 gig patches and 4 home patches etc. Rich

[dbvt120]

The Valvetronix modeling emulates very closely how your guitars would sound with the original of that model. Some amps give a tone that isn't particularly sensitive to nuances of different guitars. Others are very sensitive. This is why folk using Marshalls who switch to Fender or Vox have to get used to the different tone & playing dynamics. In your VT120+ you've got 33 amps to get your head round.

I agree to some extent with the above, but in my experience for the same audible volume level on slightly overdriven low gain amp (to provide little bit of compression) it is lot less of a change to plug and play the same guitar through Marhsall, Fender or Vox amp then it is to plug three pretty similar guitars into the valvetronix amp. That was my original observation.

Difference is not about the quality of the tone (it always sounds OK). It is about the ability to cut throught the mix and that is achieved by taking the frequency slot in the full spectre of the band (on its own it doesn't always sound good
but in a band context it sounds great). I've noticed that louder you wind the power control on valvetronix you need to touch up EQ, Volume and Gain more than usual to retain the same sound. This makes it hard to setup the volumes at rehearsal studio as dynamics will change at the gig venue anyway, hence my observation about my feeling that I am not in control. Of course it is easy to set up the patches if you have soundcheck at the venue.

The part that I don't entirely think is accurate in the above quote is that valvetronix accurately emulates all amps. It is true to some extent on a bedroom level.
I owned Fender Bassman and Valvetronix is close to it but not there. However this is not the reason to discard it as bad. Valvetronix has own character while emulating Bassman and that is nice too.

Same single coil guitar plugged into actual Bassman amp sounded the same on all volume levels with very little amp tweaking and as I had to up or lower the volume depending on the venue and the drum kit I was against, Fender Bassman was very easy to predict. If I was raising the volume Bass control had to go down. Lowering the volume Bass had to go up (initially at 3 o'clock for bedroom level). Other guitars had their own rules that were different and it did not take long to get familiar with these patterns of behaviour.

With vt120+ I can achieve similar sound but need to fiddle with Bass/Mid/Treble/Gain/Volume/Power level controls until for lot lonnger in order to achieve the same effect.

I mostly play entire gig through one guitar (same guitar there as backup in case string breaks, etc) and sometimes two amps (depending on the set list) switched with A/B switch when needed (typically between the songs).

[deano]

With vt120+ I can achieve similar sound but need to fiddle with Bass/Mid/Treble/Gain/Volume/Power level controls until for lot lonnger in order to achieve the same effect.

I don't gig so I suppose I'm not best placed to comment, but I guess that is the downside of a flexible modelling amp costing far less, rather than the genuine article. The genuine amp is geared to do one job and one job only, but really well. The Bassman is the example you use. I have never played an original one, at any level, bedroom or stage, but I would guess that it is easier to use simply because it only has to be a Bassman, not an AC30, Twin, JCM800 etc as well.

I guess cost also comes into it, and I'm happy with the job Vox have done for my £130, given I only play at home for my own amusement, but if I had spent ten times as much on a gigging amp, then yes, I would expect it to behave more consistently, especially if it wasn't a modelling amp.

It's all about compromise I guess, and what your own particular requirements are. I project manage IT software projects, and there is a triangular relationship between cost, time and functionality. Pick any two and the third will suffer ("You can have a fully featured system tomorrow but the cost will make you're eyes water!"). With the Valvetronix amps, we've selected cost (they are cheaper than the original amps), and functionality (they model 33 different amps and are very flexible), but the trade off is in time in getting to know it, and setting it up for different playing environments.

[Col Mustard]

great thread... I think there's a lot to learn in just these few posts, and plan to print them out to read later, and put in with my Vox notes. This is why I joined this forum, to hear from players like this. It helps to make sense out of a wilderness of tones.

I have a vt-30 and have come to some of the same conclusions. these amps have to sell worldwide to players who have widely diverse requirements. so what's available on these amps is not just too much, it's WAY TOO MUCH. I know numerous guitarists who play in several bands... Jazz on Friday evening, Rock on Friday night, Country on Saturday night and Sunday morning at the Church. If you're doing that, all these models would be quite useful, trying to play covers that sound something like the recordings.

But me, I'm trying to do something simpler... to develop a sound that I like and that works in the venues I play. I'm trying to sound like me. I don't play all original songs, but still want to sound like me when I'm covering something. So I don't need all the models... actually most of them hold no interest for me even though I know they may be the more popular. That's okay, there's room for all of us. So I think the system where Green=Clean is a really good idea, simple and easy to use onstage. I have been doing something much more limited in performance, using the clean Green setting in channel one with one edgier alternative preset in channel two, and a blues driver in front of the amp for another alternative. That's three different tones for one guitar, really all I need. I have been working on a similar setup in the red channel for another guitar, because of what Voxman was saying... different nuances etc. But the red ain't stage ready yet, so I'm making notes (so I don't forget) and still tweaking it.

So you can see I'm working a lot slower to explore all these alternatives. I am a lot more openminded when I'm practicing. I'll try anything, and have had a lot of fun doing that. Keeping it simple onstage is a must for me, and this amp and pedal are working quite well in this regard. When I'm practicing, I've been liking the Fender Bassman (of course) and the Deluxe model, and when I'm feeling edgier, the Express Train model really gets it for me.

How I learn my VT-30: keep it simple, make copies of the setting diagrams, and be true to the tone that I hear in my head... try and present that to the audience. That's what they're paying for.