Ad120vtx versus vt120+

[blue1]

Hi I'm a newbie to the forum. This place is awesome. I saw a used ad120vtx for sale and wanted to ask whether I should hold out for the new vt120+ that will be in the USA in January sometime. The vt120+ doesnt have a speaker out or an effects loop but has so many more presets, the ad120vtx has a better footswitch and all the capabilities and is a trusted amp that is well respected. Price is not the object it's more the sound that I'm interested in. I can get whatever effects I need from a pedal.
Just curious for an opinion.

[Voxman]

The Blue series VTX amps were custom designed as a gigging amp. They are of superior build quality (birch-ply cabs), they have better speakers (the excellent Celestion 'Neodog' G12 Century speakers) and are 'full-featured' by which I mean:

[*]32 fully customisable user presets (the VT+ has only 8 by the way - the rest are factory presets that can't be changed). Remember too that the VC12 can store 4x32 sets of patches.

[*]The AD120VTX has stereo line-outs (with level control), stereo FX loop, extension speaker outs (& the internal speakers stay connected by the way). The VT+ has no line outs (save headphone & mp3 out), & no FX loop.

[*]The tubes (there are two in the AD120VTX because its a stereo amp) are before the line outs/headphone outs, so you get the tube in action when using these. The VT+ amps are all mono, with the tube after the headphone out - so you don't get the tube through headphones.

[*]Each dedicated effect section is independent - so you're not forced into combining or choosing effects. You can have any one of the 3 reverbs, with any one of the 3 delays, and with any one of the modulations.

[*]2 inputs - Hi & Lo impedence - the VT+ has a single 'mid-set' input.

[*]Superior tuner & massively superior floor control & proper LED indicators (inc floor control tuning) with the VC12 - no comparison to the very limited VFS5 options.

When the AD120VTX was new, it sold for £1,000-£1200 plus £200 for the VC12. The VT+ are made for a different sector of the market - it's aimed primarily at the younger player who wants a versatile practice/small club amp. The VT30 was the VT series biggest seller, so the VT40+ is likely to be the biggest seller in the VT+ range. There will be customers for the VT120+ of course, but a lot less than the VT20+ & 40+ which are aimed at the bulk market.

The VT & VT+ units are built to a very tight budget but they are reasonably well made for their class & price point. They offer lots of good features but there are limitations which is to be expected considering their price-range. They sound good, are very competitively priced, & Vox has tried to improve features to get nearer the VTX range - the new pedal section & built in tuner (although the tuner is very 'twitchy' by the way) are an example, plus it has 33 new amp models as compared to only 16 in the VTX.

Straight out the box, the VT120+ is likely to sound better than the AD120VTX - but I use a 7-band EQ and a BBE Sonic stomp in the FX loop of my VTX, which makes a HUGE difference that IMHO more than levels the playing field tonally.

I can't comment on volume (the VT120+ is supposed to be capable of 150w - the AD120VTX is only rated at 2x60w) & tonal comparisons as I've not found a VT120+ to try out, but the VT+ series are all smaller & lighter than the VT series - the VT120+ is 47.4lbs as compared to the AD120VTX which is a tad under 58lbs. This is great for portability but I suspect may not help tonal quality at volume.

If you want a true gigging amp, IMHO the AD120VTX with an EQ/BBESS in the FX loop plus VC12 is a tough act to beat. But if you want a new amp under warranty, at a competitive price, are prepared to accept certain improvements in exchange for certain limitations, then I suspect the VT120+ plus VFS5 is also going to be a good rig to have. As with all things, its about compromise and getting the gear that best fits you & your needs.

And wherever possible, to avoid disappointment, TRY GEAR OUT PROPERLY FIRST!!! By properly, I mean spend some serious time trying out the amps features, at different volumes, with your own guitar. On the forums you may find folk commenting on noise, or whistling, or volume jumps - but its your money so go by your own ears & judgement. If you can't try out gear, then you're taking a chance either way.

My main gigging rig is still my AD120VTX, AD212, VC12 (with EQ & BBESS through the FX loop). It's been superb & the most versatile rig I've ever owned. But the truth is I rarely gig at the moment, as I've got older its a lot for an old guy like me to schlapp around. So, I've been using my Tonelab ST more & more to plug into amps that are there, and through my all-valve Laney VC30 at home. I might upgrade to the new TLEX that will be more gig friendly. If I was in the market for a VT+, I'd want something lighter & smaller so the VT40+ - or possibly the VT80+ with a 12" speaker might do me.

Rich

[Voxman]

I would suggest you may need to be a bit cautious re the VT+ power ratings. The VT40+ is supposed to be 60w cranked. So, I've just cranked it up and my AD120VTX at only 15w is WAY louder. Now, that's not necessarily a fair indication - I am going through 4x12" speakers vs a single 10" in the VT40+ and I am using an EQ in the FX loop, but the level is set to '0' so it's not adding that much to the volume.

The only fair comparison is against the VT120+ of course - rated at 150w and with 2x12" speakers, there will be a BIG difference. But the AD60VTX (60w with a 1x12" speaker) isn't too far behind the AD120VTX volume wise & having played one, it will also be way louder than the VT40+ even at 15w.

From what I've heard, & what I remember, I don't think the VT40+ is any louder than the VT30. I'd need to compare them side by side, but purely from my recollection I'd have to say that the VT30 may possibly have felt a little louder. Perhaps its slightly bigger cabinet helped a little here. I no longer have the VT30 to compare, so perhaps you shouldn't rely on my memory here!

Rich

[blue1]

Hey Rich, Thanks you sold me on the ad120vtx. I have an ad30vt at home and love it. I'm english but live in the states and I almost fell off me chair when I saw an ad120vtx for $300 and I can still buy the vc12 brand new from a few places I saw on the web and be under the price (almost) of a vt120+ and the ad120 has enough volume for a large gig or a small room. I also want to thank you for the posts on Youtube, although the sound is compressed it still sounds great and definately proves the point about the EQ. Big Help to me.
Thanks mate
PS Start gigging again, it's good for the soul

[Voxman]

Hi Blue - if you know of dealers who still stock the VC12 could you post the links, as I know there are several folk trying to get hold of one.

I think you'll love the AD120VTX (remember, you need a mono Y cable as per the FAQ for connecting a mono EQ/BBESS) and at only $300 its a real bargain - even if it needs a service!!

I'd love to start gigging again. Problems are finding local folk who are decent musicians to play with, & balancing work, family, & professional study commitments!

Once you've got it, let us know what you think & whether you're happy my post represented a fair overview. These things are always subjective, which is why its always best to try gear first to avoid disappointment.

[blue1]

Hey Rich thanks for all your input it really helped. I pulled the trigger on it today. So happy Xmas to me. Lol. The amp looks mint and I am used to the workability of the amps. This is going to be my main amp. Like I said before I have an ad30vt that I love. I bought a line6 spiderjam to use as a recording and practice amp. Although the spider is a fun amp and great as a practice amp it doesnt have that great sound and lacks the warmth of the Vox. I'm totally stoked about the purchase once again thanks for the advice and help.

[GrantR]

Hey Rich,
I know this thread is a bit over a year old, but I'm looking at the same/similar kind of scenario.
There is a second hand AD120VTX available locally for approx the same price as a new VT120+
I'm much more interested in the quality of the Fender & Vox amp modelling, than the bells and whistles department.
I only play at home now, but am fussy about having really good tone (I've been playing about 48 years now - with many different valve and SS amps).

As I mentioned in another thread here, my other option is to look at getting a TL EX, and plugging that into my new model Peavey Bandit. Once again, I am only really interested in the Fender & Vox amps, with very occasional venture into a crunchy Marshall sound.

Overall, which would be my best option tone/amp wise ? I mainly play blues / Jazz, and like to play fairly clean - to slightly warmish these days, chucking an OD pedal in front when needed.
I mainly use just Reverb and a bit of Delay, and sometimes Chorus for some songs.

Cost is not the driving factor, just very good tone.
Thanks for any advice offered - from anyone.

PS: another amp option for me - at a similar price point, is the VT100 - if that is another good option - when compared to the options mentioned above ? Thanks.

[Voxman]

IMHO AD120VTX plus EQ (& even better with BBE sonic stomp maximiser too) is still the best Valvetronix they ever made, particularly with the VC12 gives superb floorcontrol/gigging options. I wouldn't swap mine for a VT100, VT120+ ...& not even the new VTX150 Pro (although the Pro is excellent & I'd like it in addition!)!

But all of these are massive overkill for home use though. You've got the power level control of course, so any of these can be used at home but they're big amps that really sound best once opened up. For home use, I personally think you should try a smaller version such as the VT40+, or VT30. I've done demo's of both (see my you-tube channel link below). Both have a 10" speaker which gives a nice vintagy, brighter feel, and there are lots of nice cleans in them.

Another very good amp you should try is the Fender Mustang II which has a 12" speaker. It has lots of very nice Fender clean amp models that might suit you very well plus models for blues and rock too. It has very good modelling & nice effects, & sounds very good, plus it comes with FUSE software and recording software, and has upgradeable firmware via USB/internet.

The TLEX through a solidstate Peavey Bandit? I definitely wouldn't go that route! If you're going TLEX you need an all-valve amp for better warmth & response. I have a TLST and it's brilliant through my valve amps. The Laney VC30-210 I have is just too loud for home use. So I bought myself a Laney Cub 12R and replaced the stock Celestion Rocket 50 with a Celestion Vintage 30. It sounds superb with either my conventional pedalboard or my TLST or the loan TLEX I have.
I made some you-tube vids of the cub last week with a Les Paul & a Strat (straight, no effects) that you might want to check out on my Voxman5 channel.

There are also some demo's on there of the TLST with a Vox AC4TVH & 1x12" cab.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Voxman5?feature=mhee

Hope this is of some help.

Rich

[GrantR]

Thanks for the reply Rich.
The reason I want a 120 amp, is the twin speakers, and the fuller sound delivered by that type of combo amp.
I do realise it is "overkill" for home use, but they do have attenuators to sort that side of things. A single 12 or 10 - to my ears, generally doesn't sound as nice as 2 x 12 or 2 x 10.

I'm sure that the smaller VT's in the 30 to 40 watt range are quite adequate for home use, but that isn't the point for me. I've had many different amps, of all sizes and types over the years, - just never any VOX amps, or VOX pedals.
I like quality tone, and don't mind paying for it, but as I have said, I don't know much at all - yet, about Valvetronix or Tonelab's, hence the questions.

I have tried the Fender Mustang II, III, and IV, and like them - more particularly the II and the IV for some reason. The III I tried, didn't do much for me. I actually think the tone from the closed back II was the pick of them. The IV had the 'fuller' sound with 2 x 12's.

I have already looked at your video demoing the AD120VTX with the Behringer EQ in the loop, and even on Youtube, it certainly makes a difference. It would be a 'have to get' item for the AD120VTX, or a VT120 (sadly not available to be used on the VT120+).

I'll check out your other video's. Thanks for your suggestions.

[Voxman]

Grant, I hear you re the 2x12" bigger tone - & I have no hesitation in saying go for the AD120VTX. IMHO t's simply a superior amp to the VT120+ - admittedly the VTX120+ has more up to date modeling, some nice features (eg more amp models, aux out, and some nice effects) but the AD12OVTX has: - dedicated delay/modulation sections, 32 fully programmable pre-sets, way way better neodog speakers, birch ply cab, stereo FX loop, extn cab outs (that keep the internal speakers on), line out level control, a louder headphone out, better parameter controls in the pedal section, better tuner, 8/16 Ohm selector for extn cab, stereo capability, Hi & Lo inputs, VC12 ethernet connectivity, and an easier to use control panel. It's simply better made, better quality & looks really good too in its distinctive blue diamond livery.

In fact, I use my AD120VTX with a an AD212 extn cab, even at home. That's 4x12" Celestion Neodogs! And I play quite happily at 2x15w - although 2x30w is better. Upping the power-selector lets the amp 'breathe' & I recommend that setting even for home use if you can. Plus the VC12 connectivity is excellent.

I had a Mustang III on approval but didn't keep it (it had no extn cab out which I wanted). I liked it, it sounded good, had a decent Celestion speaker, and it had some nice features, but it doesn't have the valve response of the Valvetronix. Interestingly, I'd swear Fender nicked the AD120VTX modeling - it sounds so much like it! However, there are some issues with the Mustang III, IV & V (see fender forum for 55 page thread on fizz problem). I had no issues with my MIII, BUT worryingly many customers have said this appeared after a few months. The effects in the Mustang are quite limited and not great - the wah effect sounds dreadful. The hype re Fender models is very clever - but actually its more to do with EQ & I could emulate nearly every Fender model with the AD120VTX using the Fender models, and careful EQ tweaking. As I said, the underlying Mustang modeling is uncannily similar!

Rich